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- Path: ix.netcom.com!netnews
- From: mice@ix.netcom.com(Michael Engshun )
- Newsgroups: comp.lang.tcl,comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.databases.sybase,comp.databases.oracle,comp.databases.informix,comp.databases.oracle
- Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: Vacant Job Positions
- Date: 12 Feb 1996 13:39:07 GMT
- Organization: Netcom
- Message-ID: <4fnftr$aqt@reader2.ix.netcom.com>
- References: <4fecgc$ar9@engr.orst.edu> <DMJ15v.13C@falcon.daytonoh.attgis.com>
- NNTP-Posting-Host: atl-ga11-08.ix.netcom.com
- X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Feb 12 5:39:07 AM PST 1996
-
- In <DMJ15v.13C@falcon.daytonoh.attgis.com> Dick Menninger
- <Dick.Menninger@DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM> writes:
- >> In article <4fe3ov$pc0@qualcomm.com>, <nabbasi@qualcomm.com> wrote:
- >> >And why would you not want to have a college degree is the question
- >> >I would ask. If you real an able person, then you would be
- >> >able to get a college degree in the field you enjoy working in.
- "Would be" and "can afford to pay for, need to," ad nauseum are not
- the same thing. Our world is not of the Star Trek (tm) realm where
- ability reasonable desire give one access.
-
- >> not necessarily. I had been pursuing a BS in CS untill last
- >> term. Our CS department here at OSU requires 3 terms of physics >>
- >> with calc. and
- :
- >> I was forced to change my major since I was unable to do these
- >> physics classes. So you see, just because you are
- >> good at something, and enjoy it, doesn't mean that you can get a
- >> degree in it.
-
- >Now, calc. is not that far up the mathematical maturity curve
- >and the early physics courses are still rather concrete.
- The European view... in America, the curve is more like a chasm.
- (Sorry for the mathmatical soap box commentary. No, I not sorry :) )
-
- > So difficulty at this level says you are somewhat cut off from a
- >considerable body of more abstract thinking that is germaine.
- In the same way that not knowing how to build a Saturn rocket even
- though you know how to build a Saturn car makes you - mmm - an idiot.
-
- >The demonstrated ability to deal with abstraction over a wide
- >range of subjects matters is a valid criterion.
- As a degreed math person with minor in physics, physics and math
- hardly constitute "a wide range of subjects matters"...
-
- >Although
- >whether a CS degree insures your qualification is debatable,
- >inability to clear some basic hurdles in related fields in order
- >to get the CS degree should concern those employers that
- >are dealing with problems where demonstrated maturity at
- >thinking and working abstractly matters.
- >
- >In my experience, people who took readily to math and
- >physics readily developed a high level of maturity in software
- >development, as well. Coding is only a small part of modern
- >programming. Creating an abstract model of things is much
- >a part of it and is much like forming a physical theory. You
- >must understand what is important and what should be ignored.
- >You must be able to do theorem-like work to do many calculations
- >in the most appropriate form. That happens in business
- >problems as well as other contexts.
- Funny - the employers and colleagues I have known generally concur that
- one should lock up most of the developers with such "high level of
- maturity" in the programming area since they can't design a decent GUI
- or write documentation. So much for the "well-educated graduate".
-
- >So, a CS degree is a good filter for many jobs. You should
- >look very hard at why you had trouble. Was it ability or
- >attitude or inadequate background or lack of applying yourself?
- >If you were inadequately prepared, it would be worth your
- >while to go back and fix that. Life can be hard sometimes
- >and each of us must be willing to take responsibility and
- >control of ourselves and work hard when life is hard.
- Or you can do good work, suffer through the numerous employers and
- peers that can't stand undegreed developers, and judge fellow
- practitioners on their skills and thinking (and just enjoy the stories
- of where they learned them).
-
- Be well and do good work...
- Michael
-
- Degreed;
- happy about it;
- would of made my way in the world without it with some extra effort.
-
-